Saturday, May 19, 2007

The complete IIT debate in LokSabha on May 8th 2007


Need to set up an Indian Institute of Technology in Orissa

1408 hours

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): Sir, I call the attention of the Minister of Human Resource Development to the following matter of urgent public importance and request that he may make a statement thereon:

“Need to set up an Indian Institute of Technology in Orissa as proposed in the Eleventh Five Year Plan and agreed to by the Government earlier.”

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, hon. Minister, Shrimati D. Purandeswari.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): Sir, where is the Cabinet Minister? This is most unfortunate. … (Interruptions) This shows the seriousness of the Government. … (Interruptions) Where is the Cabinet Minister? … (Interruptions) This is a regular business. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please listen to me.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please listen to me.

… (Interruptions)

The Speaker has allowed her.

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HUMAN RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT (SHRIMATI D. PURANDESWARI): Sir, I thank you. I also thank my colleagues for giving me this opportunity.

Presently, there are seven Indian Institutes of Technology in the country which are IIT Kharagpur, IIT Bombay, IIT Madras, IIT Delhi, IIT Guwahati, IIT Roorkee and IIT Kanpur.

Based on the recommendations of the Scientific Advisory Council to the Prime Minister, the Ministry of Human Resource Development, Department of Higher Education had sent a proposal to the Planning Commission to set up three new Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs) in the country during the 11th Five Year Plan. After receiving the ‘in-principle’ approval of the Planning Commission to the proposal and based on the recommendations of the Scientific Advisory Council to the Prime Minister, it was proposed by the Ministry to set up three new IITs in the States of Andhra Pradesh, Bihar and Rajasthan. … (Interruptions) Let me complete.

The Ministry is in the process of deciding the exact locations of IITs in these three States in consultation with the respective State Governments. The 11th Five Year Plan has not yet been finalized. However, it has never been agreed to by the Government to establish an IIT in Orissa during the 11th Five Year Plan.

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): Sir, this is most unfortunate. The Cabinet Minister is deliberately remains absent from the proceedings of the House. However, hon. Speaker has allowed. I am not saying anything on that. … (Interruptions)

He is worried and hurried. That is the difficulty. He is more interested in politics than the affairs of his own Ministry. This is interesting.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please address the Chair.

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): The reply given by the Minister is also very casual and misleading. The people of Orissa have not forgotten and recovered from the shock and insult that has been inflicted upon them by the motivated decision of the UPA Government with regard to the shifting of the National Institute of Science, about which we have discussed in this House a number of times, from Bhubaneswar to other place. Now, again the decision of the HRD Ministry, Department of Higher Education of the Government of India, for the change of location of the original proposal of establishment of a new IIT in Orissa to other State has added salt to its wound.

Sir, this shocking news has created great discontentment in the State. The students, teachers, intellectuals in particular and public in general are very much dissatisfied. This is happening under the UPA Government. Deliberately it is ignoring the cause of Orissa. They are deciding the location of establishment of the institute by political motivation and deliberately changing the location time and again. In the case of National Institute of Science also they had changed the original place and shifted it to the other State. Although the NDA Government took a decision to set up the National Institute of Science at Bhubaneswar, Orissa yet they have shifted it to other State ignoring the decision of the previous Government. Now also, in the case of IIT, as per the reply of the hon. Minister, the Government is taking the plea of the Scientific Advisor to the Prime Minister. I am not able to understand it.

The Scientific Advisor to Prime Minister has advised him to set up IITs but he has not suggested at which place they should be set up. The Government has decided to establish three new green field Indian Institute of Technology during 11th Five Year Plan and the Planning Commission has agreed to it. The Planning Commission decided earlier that it will be decided in three States and Orissa was one among them. It was not the thinking of the Planning Commission alone. The Minister of State of HRD, my good friend, Shri Fatmi is sitting here. On 28th August, 2006 he had announced in Patna that one of these locations would be Orissa. I am not able to understand it now. I have the paper cuttings with me. He had announced on 28th August, 2006 in Patna that one of the locations would be Orissa. The State Government had also agreed to provide 300 acres of land for the purpose. If nothing of the sort was decided how could the State Government agree to offer 300 acres of land? It was decided earlier and subsequently the institute was shifted to Andhra Pradesh. Accidentally the hon. Minister who is now replying also belongs to Andhra Pradesh. I do not blame her.

It is the responsibility of the Ministry and the Cabinet Minister is absent. We do not have any objection in giving IITs to other States, be it Andhra Pradesh. Two engineering colleges with and research facilities were allowed to be established in Andhra Pradesh by the HRD Ministry but Orissa does not have any such facility. This is our demand. When the Planning Commission has decided that Orissa will be one of the locations for this IIT what was the necessity to shift it to other State? We do not mind Andhra Pradesh getting the institute but why should it be shifted from our State? Why should Orissa be ignored? We do not have any IIT.

We have the maximum engineering colleges, of course private colleges, in the Eastern part of the country but an IIT is necessary to improve the faculty in research and PhD. We are ready to provide land. Our Chief Minister has written a letter to the Prime Minister requesting it to locate an IIT in Orissa. What is the difficulty in that? Why are they so much interested in poking their nose in national politics? Is this a Union Government or a State Government? I charge that the Ministry of HRD is functioning like a panchayat.

They are not functioning like a Union Ministry. So, the Union Minister should consider all the parts of the country as parts of the Union. They should not consider it on political basis. So, that is the difficulty which is shocking for us. Due to this, the people of Orissa are very much aggrieved. I have already told that there is the highest concentration of engineering colleges. So, this Ph.D. Degree would significantly help in improving the faculty. But we have been ignored.

I would also like to submit that the Governing Body of IIT, Kharagpur has also approved a full-fledged campus to be set up in Bhubaneswar. That is also one of our demands. The IIT, Kharagpur has requested the Ministry of Human Resource Development to do this by upgrading the existing extension centre entailing an investment of Rs.800 crore to Rs.900 crore. This proposal is also waiting the clearance from the Ministry of Human Resource Development. What has happened to this? IIT, Kharagpur has requested for this and the State Government has also agree to give land free of cost for this project. So, I want to know from the hon. Minister what is the real position now. I would like to know whether one green field IIT will be located in Orissa. As regards the proposal of IIT, Kharagpur for the extension campus at Bhubaneswar, we would like to know whether that is also under the consideration of the Ministry of Human Resource Development. Are you giving approval for this project? I would request the Minister to reply to this.

It is also regrettable that Orissa finds itself at the bottom of per capita funding from the Ministry of Human Resource Development. This Ministry is funding all the States but the per capita investment of the Ministry is the lowest in Orissa. What is the difficulty? Why will Orissa be ignored? Is Orissa not part of this country? Why is this discrimination? I would like to know whether the Ministry of Human Resource Development is approving the IIT, Kharagpur and also giving an IIT to Orissa or not. Some how or the other this help will improve the imbalance and the position of Orissa. It will improve the situation to some extent. At present, the investment by the Ministry is the lowest in Orissa. So, if one green field IIT is provided to Orissa and the proposal of IIT, Kharagpur, is approved, then to some extent we would match with other States. There are seven IITs in the country. We have the concentration of private engineering colleges. Therefore, we should be provided one IIT and it was rightly decided by the Planning Commission. But I do not know why the Ministry of Human Resource Development is interfering and why they are shifting it from one State to another. This is a nasty politics. If the Government of India will not reverse its present decision of not establishing a green field IIT in Orissa during 11th Five Year Plan, it will be unfair. It will create alarming situation in the State. Now the State is burning. The students are agitating. I think some day they would come to Delhi to demonstrate. So, what is happening? The students, the intellectuals, the teachers and the public all are agitating. This Union Government is unfair to the State of Orissa. They are doing all the illegal works… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing should be recorded except the speech of Shri Tripathy.

(Interruptions) … (Not recorded)

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): Sir, it is also learnt that five new IIMs would be established during the 11th Five Year Plan. There are already IIMs in different States but we do not have a single IIM in Orissa. There is not a single central institution in Orissa. There is no IIM. So, when they are deciding to set up five new IIMs during the 11th Five Year Plan, why Orissa should not be chosen for this? The maximum number of engineering institutions, technical institutes and IT educational institutes are there in Orissa, the eastern part of the country.

So, why would the Government not decide about allotting one IIM in the State of Orissa? I would like to request the Government to consider setting up one greenfield IIT, one IIM in Orissa and also consider giving an extension of the IIT campus at Kharagpur in Bhubaneswar in the State of Orissa. If these demands are not considered favourably by the Union Government, then the people of the State would be very unhappy and the situation would not be any good.

We are for the unity of the country. We are working for the unity of the country. The contribution of the people of Orissa has been the maximum towards maintaining unity of this nation. If the State of Orissa will decide otherwise, then half of the country would be languishing in darkness. The hon. Members of this august House should know this. We are providing coal and iron ore to all parts of this country, but unfortunately in our State, we do not have any industry. If the Union Government would continue to deprive this, then naturally the State would feel isolated from the mainstream. The Naxalites are very active in the State of Orissa and they would take advantage of the situation. The Union Government seems to be conducting themselves like a Panchayat and they are following a discriminatory policy. If such an attitude does not change, then the miscreants will provoke the people and the unity of the country could be threatened. We are always for the unity of the country. The contribution of the people of Orissa to freedom struggle has been immense. We were the last State to become a part of the colonial rule… (Interruptions) The hon. Member does not seem to be aware of history… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing, except the speech of Shri Braja Kishore Tripathy, would go on record.

(Interruptions) … (Not recorded)

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): Sir, we were the last State to go under the control of the British rule. We fought against the British rule. There were many people from Orissa who were hanged by the British for participation in the freedom movement. There is not a proper reflection of those sacrifices in the history. We have not been able to pay them their due respect. Therefore, the contribution of the people of Orissa in the freedom struggle has been maximum.

Therefore, I would like to request the hon. Member to consider these demands and not wound the sentiments of the people of the State. There should not be any provocation which may lead to a serious crisis of law and order. The Government should understand the sentiments of the people of the State and consider favourably setting up of one IIT, one IIM and also giving extension of campus of IIT Kharagpur at Bhubneswar. This is the only request I would like to make to the hon. Minister. If these are not considered, then maybe, in the near future there could be agitations and the situation may go out of control.

SHRI B. MAHTAB (CUTTACK): A Calling Attention has been listed in today’s Order Paper. The hon. Minister of State for Human Resource Development, in response to this, has laid a written statement on the Table of the House. This was also listed in the first part of the Budget Session but due to the House getting adjourned for recess, this issue could not be discussed then.

It is an emotive issue for all the Oriya people, not only resident Oriyas but also Non-Resident Oriyas. This is our experience that everyday, through the net, we are receiving a large number of mails about this issue – be it Shri Jual Oram or other Members from the Rajya Sabha, we, the Members representing the State of Orissa, have been receiving a large number of mails through the net on this issue.

But why is Orissa being denied justice? Why is this United Progressive Alliance Government denying justice to Orissa? What reply do we have for this question? Should we say that because a large number of non-UPA members have been elected to this House that the UPA Government is denying justice to us? Should we say that because we do not have a Cabinet Minister in UPA, Orissa is being denied justice? Should we say that Orissa is not being recognized by the leaders of the UPA and hence it is denied justice? What should we say? What is the reply? … (Interruptions) The reply is because they stood with Indians, they stood for the cause of Orissa..… (Interruptions) What is the reason that the UPA which is in power for the last three years is denying justice to Orissa? … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing should be recorded except the speech of Shri Mahtab.

(Interruptions) … (Not recorded)

SHRI B. MAHTAB (CUTTACK): It is not only that it is denied justice only for the last three years. Since the 1960s, the 1970s, the 1980s and the first part of 1990s, Orissa had been persistently denied justice.

I would like to ask a simple question to the Minister and I would expect a reply to that question. How much investment has been made in Orissa for human resource development? How much investment has the Ministry of HRD made in Orissa during the last Ten Plans? How many Central Institutes, leave out IIT which is the issue to which we have called your attention, have been established in Orissa? Our leader, Shri Tripathy, has also mentioned about IIMs other than IITs. I would like the hon. Minister to go through the records on a commitment made in this House. In the late 1980s, our former President who was the then Minister during the tenure of Shri Rajiv Gandhi had made a commitment in this House to a Congress Member who was representing the constituency which I am representing today. At that time, she was the wife of the Chief Minister. To her, the then Minister, Shri Narayanan had made a commitment in this House that when triple IITs will be established, it will be established in Orissa. Now we are in 2007. More than four or five Governments have ruled but what has happened to the IITs? If we raise this issue, somebody will start saying that should we not take the responsibility. What happened to that triple IIT establishment? Have you fulfilled the commitment made in this House? Or do you say that other Ministries have not done it and that is why, you also have not done it? Can you shift your responsibility like this? How much money have you invested in the State of Orissa during the last 60 years? I am not asking this question to any political party or a political alliance. I am asking this question to this House, to this nation.

Why has Orissa been denied investment from the Central Budget, especially from the Ministry of Human Resource Development? How many institutes have you created? Only two Institutes of the Ministry of Agriculture have been established. One is Central Rice Research Institute, established in 1948 and the other one is Fisheries Central Institute, established in eighties. Other than these two Institutes, which are related to the Ministry of Agriculture, no other institute has been established. These Institutes have nothing to do with the Ministry of Human Resource Development. Of course, Regional Engineering College was established after Rourkela Steel Plant came up, after Hirakud Dam came up.

A large number of students from Orissa go to cities in other States for technical education, like Bangalore, Hyderabad and Delhi and very few of them go abroad. Is it not the responsibility of the Central Government to provide higher technical education to the people of Orissa at an affordable cost? Why should we have to come before you and plead? Knowing full well that Orissa is in the bottom of income index, is it not the responsibility of the Centre to do that?

You have enshrined “socialism” in the Constitution. Is it not the responsibility of the Centre to do that? A very fashionable word is being used in the last few months, that is “inclusive growth.” Is it not the responsibility of the Centre to see the overall growth of the country? If some people flare up in North-East, it immediately draws the attention of the Government; if something happens in Western front, that draws the attention of the Government. … (Interruptions)

The Scientific Advisory Council to the Prime Minister was set up and was given a mandate. What was the mandate? Was the mandate to find out how many IITs should be established? Or was the mandate to find out whether there is requirement to expand the number of IITs? I would like the hon. Minister to educate me and the House. As per my information, the mandate to Scientific Advisory Council was, other than the IITs that were established in the sixties and another one later on, is there a necessity to have more IITs in this country? Why was it restricted to three? Who restricted it to three? I would like to have an answer. How was this confined to only three? Was it done by Planning Commission? I would like to know that. If the recommendation was, one in the East, one in the West, one in the South, who decided that one should go to Bihar, one should go to Andhra Pradesh; and the third one would go to Rajasthan. Who decided that it will not go to Karnataka, Kerala or Orissa? At what level was this decision taken? I would like to understand this. If a decision has been taken consciously, what is the logic behind it? Let the whole nation know. I would like to have answers to these few questions.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing should be recorded.

(Interruptions) … (Not recorded)

MR. DEPUTY- SPEAKER: Members speaking without my permission will not go in the record.

(Interruptions) … (Not recorded)

SHRI B. MAHTAB (CUTTACK): I would like to request the hon. Minister that there is a necessity to provide more funds for establishment of Human Resource Development Central Institutes. Let us get an assurance from the hon. Minister. Whatever you say, we do not have any ill-will against the Cabinet Minister of Human Resource Development. We do not want to offend the hon. Minister who is going to reply today, but we have to plead our case. If you require all of us, all Members of Parliament from Orissa including the supporters who want Orissa to grow and prosper, all of us can go including the hon. Minister, Shri Jairam Ramesh. He can go and plead before the Minister of Human Resource Development, Shri Arjun Singh. Now let us hear from the hon. Minister.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): The UPA Government all the time talks of inclusive growth. What is the meaning of this inclusive growth? Does it mean that the growth of some with the exclusion of others? You take the example of quality of human resource available in Orissa – in the Civil Service, in the banking sector, in the IT, in medicine, in engineering what is the percentage of Oriyas? It is one of the highest in India.

The hon. Minister, Shri Jairam Ramesh is sitting here. He was with us in the Standing Committee on Finance. Wherever he was going with us, he was finding that Oriya officers were prospering everywhere like in the Income-tax, in Central Excise, in banking and whenever he stands to speak here, he says, as ever, the `Kalinga Brigade’ is available here to listen to his speech. He knows that we always sit and we listen to him.

Sir, the UPA Government and everybody knows that now there is going to be a shortage of skilled manpower in this country by 2011. We have to import skilled manpower if this trend of not making the people skilled, and if continues in India, then we will have to import people. That is why, 1,000 IITs are going to be developed as centres of excellence. The hon. Minister of Finance told about this at the time of the Budget Speech. So I am asking what is the criterion for setting up of IITs. How many IITs are there in the United States of America? How many IITs are required in a country of India’s magnitude? Is it only seven? If you include three, it is going to be ten.

Sir let me tell you, a country of India’s magnitude requires 15,000 IITs. It may sound very lofty, but it is true. So a country of one billion people requires this.

Now the UPA Government is already charging two per cent Education Cess for primary education. From this year, you have imposed another one per cent for the higher education. Every year you say that your revenue collection is increasing by 20 per cent and 30 per cent. So, there is no shortage of money. There is no resource crunch. If there is no resource crunch, why do you not come for another technical institute of the magnitude of the IIT in a State like Orissa? Why should the people from Orissa, why should MPs from Orissa simply beg like beggars? Why should we beg for it? I am not accusing you. I am not accusing any individual or this Government, but I will appeal this Government that you should see to it that Oriyas should not just come and beg to you like this.

Let us have another institute. You have it in Bihar, Rajashan and Andhra Pradesh. We have no objection to that. I told you that we require 1500 technical institutions. You can have it in Kerala and everywhere. We also want, perhaps, one in Orissa. As has already been told by Shri Braja Kishore Tripathy, the IIT Kharagpur is willing to open a campus of its own in Bhubaneswar in Western Orissa which is comparatively an under-developed area. There, the Birla Institute of Energy is having the infrastructure and everything. You can develop it and improve it to the status of an IIT. You can do that.

Lastly, hon. Minister, let me tell you that if your Government has not agreed earlier to set up an institute of IIT in Orissa, if you have not agreed, please agree to it now. If you do not agree to it today, we will keep on raising this matter in this House for all time to come till you agree.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I would like to request the hon. Members to seek clarifications because I have a very long list of speakers with me. So, I would only love clarifications on this Calling Attention. I would now request Shri Prasanna Acharya to seek only clarifications.

SHRI PRASANNA ACHARYA (SAMBALPUR): Sir, it is a very important subject concerning the State of Orissa. My colleagues have very forcefully raised it.

THE MINISTER OF SHIPPING, ROAD TRANSPORT AND HIGHWAYS (SHRI T.R. BAALU): Sir, I want to know whether the second Calling Attention will be taken up today or tomorrow. At 3 of the Clock, there is another most important discussion.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: At this time, I cannot say anything. After we finish this, I will let you know.

I would request Shri Prasanna Acharya to seek only clarifications. No lengthy speech is allowed.

SHRI PRASANNA ACHARYA (SAMBALPUR): Sir, this is a very important subject concerning Orissa. I would earnestly thank the Chair for giving me permission to raise a few questions.

It is an admitted fact that whenever there is a Congress Government at the Centre or an alliance Government led by the Congress at the Centre, Orissa has been consistently neglected. Statistics alone speaks volumes about the continued injustice meted out to Orissa whenever there is a Congress-led Government be it Railways, be it the Plan Grants or allocation of Central University or IIT, Orissa. My pertinent question to the hon. Minister of State here, who is going to reply, is a few months back, the Minister of State Shri Fatmi, who is very much present here, announced in a public function that three IITs were going to be set up. One is in Bihar and another one is in Orissa. It was announced by the Minister. Whenever a Minister makes any public announcement, it is supposed that he is announcing it on behalf of the Government. Therefore, I do not just understand why on the plea of the recommendation of the Scientific Advisory Council to the Prime Minister that the decision was subsequently changed. It is a million-dollar question for us, for the people of Orissa. When already a decision was taken that one IIT out of the three would be set up in Orissa, when it was declared by the Minister himself, why in the subsequent period the decision was again changed on the plea of the recommendation of the Scientific Advisory Council of the Prime Minister?

1442 hours (Mr. Speaker in the Chair)

I would like to draw your attention to another important issue. The Joshi Committee and subsequently the Anandakrishnan Committee evaluated a few of the old, quality engineering colleges to upgrade to the status of an IIEST. Then also, Orissa’s case was not properly considered. It was ignored at that time also. You know, Sir, that no State can achieve robust growth in economy without the sound base in science and technology which are directly linked to its economic development. While States like Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka have leveraged the technology base, Orissa has suffered due to lack of such an institution. It is an admitted fact.

My colleague Shri Mehtab was very correctly saying that among the States in the South, West, North and East, Orissa is the only one State that does not have a single institution at the level of INIs. There are already 13 INIs in India. Orissa is zero. There is a total of 7 IITs in the country. Orissa is zero. There is a total of six IIMs in India. Orissa is zero.

There are 18 Central Universities in the country. We have been demanding for a Central University to be set up in Orissa, but it has not been conceded to so far. Orissa has no national level R & D establishment, except the Regional Research Laboratory

Sir, another very important point has been raised very correctly by my colleague. You will be surprised to know that the HRD Ministry is spending only Rs. 4.70 per person on higher education in Orissa. If you see the figures of other States, in Delhi it is Rs. 183.08, in Uttaranchal it is Rs. 115.14, in West Bengal it is Rs. 41.20 and in Karnataka it is Rs. 33.04. These figures will show you how the HRD Ministry has been consistently neglecting Orissa as far as higher education is concerned.

I would like to know whether the Government is aware that a new era of industrialization has begun in Orissa. Orissa is now poised to add in excess of 70 million tonnes per annum in steel, 4 million tonnes per annum in aluminium refining, 1 million tonne per annum in aluminium, 15 million tonnes per annum in petrochemical refining, 13,000 MW of power and 5 million tonnes per annum in cement. POSCO, Tata, Mittal, L & T, Aditya Birla, Infosys and so many other companies are coming to Orissa. When a new era in industrialization has begun in Orissa, is it not necessary that more and more qualified engineers and technologists are produced in Orissa? Our Chief Minister has twice written to the Prime Minister and he met the Prime Minister also and requested for setting up an IIT in Orissa. Shri Swain was mentioning about Birla University Centre. I demand that the Birla University Centre should be upgraded and should be given the status of an Indian Institute of Technology.

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO (KALAHANDI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have also given my name. I want to seek a clarification. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: What is this? You are evolving a new procedure. Even though it is unprecedented, you can associate your names and you send the slips to the Table.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You are a senior Member. You know the rules. Please take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I am not obliged to call anybody now. We go up to 5 Members and sometimes up to 6. Now, another 20 hon. Members are standing up and asking for chance to speak. How is it possible to allow all of you? I am sorry.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Let us follow some rule.

… (Interruptions)

PROF. RASA SINGH RAWAT (AJMER): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have also given notice.

MR. SPEAKER: Notice means nothing Mr. Rawat.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please take your seats. This is a specific subject. Hon. Members from the concerned State have spoken. So, there is no reason to allow any other hon. Member now.

SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS (PALGHAT): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to seek a clarification.

MR. SPEAKER: No, I am sorry. This is not the procedure. The hon. Minister’s statement only will be recorded.

(Interruptions) … (Not recorded)

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HUMAN RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT (SHRIMATI D. PURANDESWARI): Sir, this is the 150th year of the Soldiers’ Mutiny… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Thomas, I will not allow this kind of violation of rules. I have told you.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Deo, I will not allow this. You are defying the Chair deliberately.

SHRIMATI D. PURANDESWARI: Sir, this is the 150th year of the Soldiers’ Mutiny, which is considered the corner stone, the basis for our Independence Movement and every Indian, every State had rightly its role to play in the Independence Movement. Not only Orissa, but the entire country was unified and did fight for its Independence. I would like to make that very clear here.

The Indian Institutes of Technology have been conceived as institutes of national importance and these institutes are leaders in technology innovation and also to educate and train graduates and post-graduate level technologists and engineers at all levels to the very best in any part of the country. Therefore, it can be justified that every State would want to have an IIT, which is considered a global brand in technical education, in their State.

But, before I proceed further and answer the various queries posed by my hon. Colleagues, I would just like to briefly outline the way in States in which these three IITs needs to be established was decided upon. Prof. C.N.R. Rao, Chairman of Scientific Advisory Council to the Prime Minister, had recommended the setting up of three IITs and his letter to the hon. HRD Minister has clearly indicated that one IIT needs to be established in South, one in East, possibly in… (Interruptions) Bihar and one in West, probably in Rajasthan… (Interruptions) It was very clearly mentioned… (Interruptions) I apologise for my slip of the tongue… (Interruptions)

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO (KALAHANDI): Sir, I am on a point of order.

MR. SPEAKER: There cannot be a point of order on the slip of tongue.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I am sure the hon. Minister will be very happy, as all of us, to provide an IIT to Orissa, but she is saying why it has not been possible and why some decision has been taken. Nobody is unsympathetic. We all want an IIT in every State. Why not? But there are certain ways of doing things.

SHRIMATI D. PURANDESWARI: It was on his recommendation that three States were identified as possible locations for the new IITs that were to be set up.

With regard to IISCR, that Shri Braja Kishore Tripathy was mentioning, the idea was mooted by the then Chairman of UGC and UGC was not considered a competing body to actually open institutes. It was only a body which would extend grants to the universities and colleges. Therefore, in the Law Ministry, it was not considered legal by the UGC to announce the opening up of an IISCR. That was the reason why the idea of opening up of IISCR to be established in Orissa was dropped.

As far as the remark which Shri Fatmi had made is concerned, he is very much present here and he clearly declines having made such a remark… (Interruptions)

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): The hon. Minister should not say that. Otherwise, I will bring a privilege motion… (Interruptions)

SHRIMATI D. PURANDESWARI: He is present here and has denied that… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: What is being done here? Neither your statement is recorded nor her statement can be heard.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO (KALAHANDI): Sir, she is misleading the House… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Deo, you are a very alert Member. If she is misleading the House, you have ample remedy.

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO (KALAHANDI): Sir, she is beating around the bush… (Interruptions) I am on a point of order.

MR. SPEAKER: She is beating around the bush.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order for that. I have never heard of having a point of order on beating around the bush.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: All right then, I will stop this discussion here.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Do not record any observation. Any hon. Member speaking without the permission of the Chair is not to be recorded. You know that rule.

(Interruptions) … (Not recorded)


MR. SPEAKER: Nobody can compel any particular Minister to reply.

The hon. Minister may continue.

… (Interruptions)

SHRIMATI D. PURANDESWARI: As far as the proposal to set up an IIT in Kharagpur is concerned, to have large extension, the greenfields campuses of IITs in other States opened by IITs somewhere else would actually call for 500 to 600 acres of land from the State Governments. As he said, the State Government was ready… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: What is this?

SHRIMATI D. PURANDESWARI: At the same time, the cost of land development itself would be around Rs. 120 crore to Rs. 150 crore besides the cost of setting up the entire infrastructure would be somewhere to the tune of Rs. 1000 crore … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: What is this? Nothing is being recorded.

(Interruptions) … (Not recorded)

SHRIMATI D. PURANDESWARI: Besides this, the burden of the non-recurring would again fall on the Government of India. It is not to shirk away from the responsibility; it is to consolidate. We, already, have shortcomings in the other IITs as such. We have faculty problems; we have infrastructural problems. Unless we consolidate all these, we would not be in a position to open Greenfield campuses elsewhere in other States. That was the reason. However, Bhubaneswar does have an extension centre opened by IIT Kharagpur which actually extends post doctoral, continuing education programmes there. It has been there for quite some time.

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): You accept the proposal of Kharagpur also.

SHRIMATI D. PURANDESWARI: We have not accepted the proposal of Kharagpur.

Planning Commission has only given an in-principle approval for setting up of these three new IITs.… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I would be very happy to have an IIT in Puri.

… (Interruptions)

SHRIMATI D. PURANDESWARI: But where the IITs need to be set up has not been mentioned by the Planning Commission. This was clearly mentioned in the C.N.R. Rao Report itself.

Mahtabji has questioned the mandate of the Scientific Advisory Committee. The Scientific Advisory Council to the PM has a mandate to recommend the development of science and technology in the country. IISERs have been set up based on these recommendations. Besides this, IITs also are being also set up based on these recommendations again. As I said, it was not very easy; the cost of setting up of an IIT is to the tune of Rs. 1000 crore besides the land and the land development cost.

Coming to allegation that Orissa has been sidelined or has been marginalized, I would like to briefly read out the names of the Centrally-funded Institutes which are already existing. There is Regional Research Laboratory at Bhubaneswar, Biju Patnaik National Steel Institute at Puri, Extension Centre Kharagpur, Indian Institute of Mass Communication at Dhenkanal, Regional Medical Research Institute.… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Do not record anything.

(Interruptions) … (Not recorded)

SHRIMATI D. PURANDESWARI: There is Central Rice Research Institute, Cuttack, Central Institute of Freshwater Aquaculture at Kausalyaganga, National Institute of Rehabilitation, Training and Research at Cuttack, Water Technology Centre for Eastern Region at Bhubaneswar… (Interruptions) National Research Centre for Women in Agriculture at Bhubaneswar,

MR. SPEAKER: She is doing a brilliant job. Kindly support it.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Do not be angry, young man.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Now, we take up item no. 9. Shri Jairam Ramesh.

… (Interruptions)

1500 hours

(At this stage, Shri Brahmananda Panda and some other hon. Members came

and stood near the Table.)

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: You are all senior Members and responsible Members. This is not the way. Please go back to your seats.

Let us not bring down this institution. Everyday it is happening. I appeal to all of you to go back to your seats.

… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please do not record anything.

(Interruptions) … (Not recorded)

1501 hours

(At this stage, Shri Brahmananda Panda and some other hon. Members

went back to their seats.)

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): Sir, we are not satisfied with the reply of the hon. Minister. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions) … (Not recorded)

MR. SPEAKER: Enough is enough. Now, item no. 9. Shri Jairam Ramesh.


1502 hours

No comments: